I knew you'd keep me company.
If Clinton wins the nomination, I'm done.
How is McKinney doing in the Green Party nomination process?
That's what I've been trying to figure out, because if she gets the nom (which she probably will, because the other people going for it are straight nobodies) my vote is TOTALLY going to her. I've been telling everybody that if they're going to vote Dem, vote Obama, but if they're not, vote McKinney.
So everybody vote McKinney if Billary gets the nom!
Which will absolutely guarantee McCain in the whitehouse.
Protest Votes or "votes of conscience" never "send a message", they only result in aiding the side that is most at odds with your political ideals.
Nader and Perot have proven this.
I'd rather have a hypothetical worst Democrat in the world being the one doing the Supreme Court nominations as opposed to any Republican.
McCain has pulled some serious 180s from being a man of some integrity to becoming yet annother neo-con puppet. If he is in office, expect more immunity for telecoms, more war, more protections for Bush regime cronies, and more of the same Staus Quo. I've got a handful of videos that show just how much McCain has "flip-flopped" on critical issues. Examples: early 2000s he says the war will be easy. Later, he says that the American people were misled into believing the war will be easy and he knew it would be hard.
While Hillary may indeed be a fairly conservative dem, she is still a dem, and most of the nominations and appointments will be driven mainly by the party, and much less so by her specifically. I know how bad the neo-cons are, and I don't imagine she could ever possibly be worse.
That said, I would much, much prefer that Obama be the one getting the nomination. I think Hillary is a bad Democrat, but I think defeating an enemy is vastly more important than making a statement while shooting yourself in the foot. Don't Vote to feel good, Vote to keep the biggest assholes out of the Whitehouse.
I'm not sure a vote for Clinton would keep the biggest assholes out of the White House.
Further, the Democrats will take Congress and the Senate this year, and if they do the unexpected and act like they have a spine, they can scuttle any particularly noxious Supreme Court nominees.
Anyhow, I'm in CA, which will go to whatever Democrat takes the nomination. This will be my year to refuse to cast a vote "against" my own best interest.
All I can do is say "right on."
I still harbor resentment at an otherwise hyper-intellegent, feminist, justice-oriented friend of mine who seriously said that there was no difference between Gore and Dubya, and voted for Nader. Sure, tell me we'd have the Supreme Court we have now, the Patriot Act, and the ascendancy of Dominionism under Gore.
I should also say:
If Clinton wins the nomination, McCain wins the White House ANYWAY.
All of those lily-white flyover states that have come out so strongly for Obama, in both primaries and caucuses? Republican strongholds. Not normally in play. Liberal to moderate Republicans have been defecting like what to vote for Obama, and the numbers of Democratic voters in some states are exceeding the numbers of voters in the GOP primaries.
Which means: if Obama loses the nomination, those Republicans are going back to their party.
It may be their sexism, it may be that they really like Obama. Regardless, we all lose if he loses--unless McCain starts moving further to the left after the Democratic nominee is chosen:http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/article.php?id=AIA2008030601
Thanks, but no thanks. I vote to feel good and think that horse race politics are the stupidest idea on the face of the planet. I couldn't vote for a Democrat and feel good about it, so I won't.
But then again, I honestly don't care if McCain (or anyone else, really) gets in the White House and runs the US into the ground like Rome.
2008-03-13 03:57 am (UTC)
I don't think I can bring myself to vote for him.
I think I'll sit at home and have a nice glass of port instead.
No, Nixon was actually better than Failed-President Bush.
Nixon stopped the stupid "reefer madness" approach to drug-related crime and emphasized treatment for addicts over jail time.
Nixon went to China and signed the SALT agreement with the Soviets.
He also proposed universal healthcare (to be paid for by EMPLOYERS).
He was certainly a paranoid and a bully boy, but compared to the Smirking Chimp, he was bloody FDR.
Geraldine Ferraro is the last motherfucking straw.
Well agreed THERE.
I was afraid something happened to Obama though, and was frantically searching news sites.
i thought clinton denounced what ferraro said?
i read that ferraro was actually claiming that in context she was comparing obama to sharing the experience she had had when she was on a ticket. though that context thing always feels like trying to backpeddle.
Ferraro's "I'm not racist... you're racist for calling me out because I'm white!" BullShit is vomitous.
Clinton has denounced the statment, but in fairly weak terms I'm afraid.
2008-03-13 07:40 am (UTC)
It's race-baiting, pure and simple.
Funny, but I have a feeling she didn't say that in 1984.
Though she did say, about Jesse Jackson's '88 run, that he, too, was only in that position because he was black.
I bet if she were to live another 20 years, she'd say the same about any black presidential candidate that drew any attention.
The Clinton campaign has clearly decided to scrap the "racist dog whistle" in favor of a bullhorn.
2008-03-13 08:31 am (UTC)
Re: It's race-baiting, pure and simple.
let's say it together now: "Can we have some fries with that extra-large of WWS?"
Ferraro and all those other 70-something second-wavers have officially lost 80% of any respect I had for what they did in the past.
Excuse me while I go cuss and spit in the corner.
2008-03-13 05:28 am (UTC)
I am a little dense, so..
Who were you voting for originally, and how does this affect whether you will be voting later?
Three months ago, I didn't know who I was voting for.
Two months ago, I decided I would probably vote for Obama.
As of South Carolina, I'd decided I was going to vote against Clinton. If she wins the nomination by splitting the party along racial lines by specifically appealing to white racists, while endorsing the GOP candidate, I will vote for another candidate or not at all (for the president, anyway).
2008-03-13 05:57 am (UTC)
Re: I am a little dense, so..
OoooooooOh.. okay. So if Obama was taken out of the elections, you might have voted for Clinton.. but now she is being a racist psycho you wouldn't?
Hmm... well I am pro-Obama, and I think Hilary's campaign has been really shameful (and I seriously want to smack little Miss Reverse Racism) but if the choice becomes her or McCain, I will probably still vote for her.
In 2000 and 2004, I found myself wanting to smack people who insisted on voting for Nader out of some sense that they needed a "perfect" candidate in one of the major parties.
Nader, a third-party and then independent candidate ,was never perfect. He in fact was quite willing to throw people of color, poor people, and queers under the bus to "make a statement."
I am not looking for a perfect candidate, but I am surely not tossing in my lot with a clearly racist, immoral, and egotistical one who is willing destroy her own party and help elect a Republican in order to satisfy her ambition.
I cannot and will not cast my vote for Hillary Rodham Clinton in November.
I will vote down-ticket. (Durbin and Schakowsky are Obama supporters as well as rather awesome in their own right.) But I will not vote in the top race if HRC gets the nomination after all this crap.
Voting for a Democratic candidate who engages in the worst kind of racist pandering isn't that different from voting for a GOP candidate, in my view. Especially when said candidate bent over backward to accomodate the GOP agenda in the senate.
Though again, since I'm in Illinois, it won't make a damn bit of difference as a protest vote. I'll just feel a little cleaner. If I lived in a swing state, it would hard to think about throwing away more Supreme Court slots.
The Supreme Court slots are what will keep me voting for H if she gets the nomination. RBG is holding on for dear life in the hopes that there will be a Democrat in office who will nominate somebody who won't overturn Roe and other crucial rights cases.
way more important, in my book, to actual policies and personality is: a)who holds the puppet strings and b) who gets to nominate judges (who then are on the bench FOR LIFE)
scary. unsurprising, but scary. i hope people really think about what they are doing before they start sulking in a corner if H wins. i am not happy about her, either, but my opinions about her bullshit is not the only thing at stake.
2008-03-13 02:07 pm (UTC)
I am always one to not vote and if Clinton gets in then I will return to my usually resting state.
if she get's the nomination, i'm not voting for her, or any ticket that's she's on, period... even obama billary... she need to sit her ass down... her behavior has been shameful and down right disrespectful...