I once dared suggest in an online discussion in re: feminism that feminism ought to be about reconstructing the ways in which we all communicate with each other, how society is actually structured to oppress more than just women, etc., that "equal rights for women" is not really going to change much of anything; I was immediately attacked and cast out.
Sometimes I don't like calling myself the F-word, either - especially when it comes to bullshit like those comments on NARAL and all of the disgusting related commentary. Hillary Clinton seems to be damned both ways - the subject of sexist commentary in response to her candidacy on the one hand, the promoter and attractor of racist and other spurious commentary on the other. Feh.
What I find particularly egregious is the claim that NARAL supporting Obama is "sexist!" Preposterous! I am sick and tired of being told that Hillary Clinton must be somehow given more room than any other candidate because she's a woman... that's sexist in and of itself, not allowing the candidate to stand on her own. And as far as the claim that he is not strong on choice: http://www.ontheissues.org/Social/Barack_Obama_Abortion.htm
I know it's not possible for me to personally apologize for all white feminists, but god damn. I'm sorry. I really, really am. Gah.Edited at 2008-05-15 07:04 am (UTC)
that link opened up some weird spam on my computer
Their reactions make no sense to me. The article complimented Hilary too. It didn't bag on her.
some feminists know that it is all one fight, with different nasty aspects to each particular battle field. the problem with calling onself a feminist is that, well, that word doesn't automatically imply "anti-oppression in all it's forms"ist.
And on that note, I'll kick in anyone's teeth if they think they understand the place of women in the middle east having never talked to an arab woman about it .
so yeah. I understand.
Where was their fair-haired girl when South Dakota pro-choice activists needed a hand after that horrid legislation passed? MIA.
Obama came through with money and support.
Which is just one of the many, many reasons I'm voting for him.
Well, and I'm a fembot traitor, of course!
Good lord! the vitriol over their is making me sick.
I've never been a huge NARAL follower, but I suddenly have a strong urge to start donating to them, just to counter all of the threats of donation pulls that their receiving.
When they're done clawing each others' eyes out over who gets to be equal to white men so that they can all, together, oppress the rest of us,
You know? I know what this fight is really about. None of that bullshit is because he's "evil, a monster" or because Hillary Rodham Clinton is so awesome. It's because she's a white woman and on a basic, gut level, they can't STAND the idea that he's winning this election, with or without the NARAL endorsement. Neither the stink of their misguided gender essentialism or the virulence of their unacknowledged racism is anything new under the sun. They're just too blinded by their hurt feelings to see it.
A good deal of my commitment to him as a candidate has been the direct result of the racism used as a tool by the Clinton campaign
I saw the site yesterday and I guess I need to take the blinders off, because goddamn if I am still shocked by the "feminist" response to this whole campaign.
There is just so much in your entry that I agree with, wholeheartedly.
Sorry, also, why is it that when we are legitimately inspired and excited by a candidate that refuses to play the Washington game, that we must be "drinking the Kool-Aid"? What IS that bullshit. I'm not fainting over his speeches, although I have shed a few tears, but damnit. What is so wrong about that?
They can have feminism. I'm not going to fight them for it anymore. When they're done clawing each others' eyes out over who gets to be equal to white men so that they can all, together, oppress the rest of us
Yeah, they can have feminism; they've ruined the word. But then we need a new word, something for the women of color.
It's called womanism
- but it primarily pertains to Black women though.
I have been so disgusted by the entire process lately, I'm on the verge of total burnout. The racist antics employed by the Clinton campaign enrage me, and without forgiving one iota of that, I am almost equally furious at the media's treatment of the "female" candidate. I can abide by neither, but Clinton's people brought my rage upon themselves, and Obama has not contributed to the women-bashing undertaken by the offending media outlets.
Until feminism realizes that it must stand for anti-oppression, not just while women, it cannot prevail. The exclusion is overt and it is unforgivable. My heart and mind are with you.
The racist antics employed by the Clinton campaign enrage me, and without forgiving one iota of that, I am almost equally furious at the media's treatment of the "female" candidate. I can abide by neither, but Clinton's people brought my rage upon themselves, and Obama has not contributed to the women-bashing undertaken by the offending media outlets.
Exactly. People have conflated his campaign with the media, when it's that same media that created the Rev. Wright circus, circulated the photo of him in traditional African dress, etc. The media is NObody's friend, but his campaign hasn't exploited that fact to harm Ms. Clinton.
I was watching CNN the other night at the gym and they were saying that, of the women who currently support Clinton, 50% of the ones they polled said they would NOT support Obama if he won the primary, and 23% said they would vote for McCain.
I understand being a woman and wanting to vote for the woman candidate. My sister put it like so: "I made a promise to myself as a kid that if I had the chance to vote for a woman [Democrat] for president, I would do it." It would be rad if little girls, of all walks of life, could look at the President and realize that they could do that job if they wanted.
What I don't understand is this whole false dichotomy, "If you're not with us you're against us*, aka SEXIST" bullshit some women are trying to peddle. If they just looked at Obama's experience and policies for a second, they'd realize he's an awesome pro-woman candidate. Instead, they're just looking at the fact that he's a dude.
And 23% would vote for pro-life McCain? OKAY.
I guess I just don't get it. Maybe I, like shipbuilding, need to take my blinders off, 'cause I didn't realize feminism was 100% white and at least 23% Republican.
*p.s. This is the same bullshit line Republicans were peddling about the war 5 years ago, by the way. WTF.
Yup yup yup.
The complete lack of logic in someone who claims to be pro-choice vowing to vote for McCain if Obama becomes the democratic nominee is mind-blowing. And it makes it clear that this isn't about Clinton being such a great choice. The hostility toward the Obama campaign is unwarranted, but if I suggest that at least some of it is a matter of racism on the part of these voters, I'll be told I'm playing some kind of card.
i think there must be a class correlation with which wave of feminism women identify with (not in terms of knowing which wave it is, but in terms of what they believe) and my suspicion is that working class women (who by and large support hillary on the basis of her sex) would tend to be "2nd wave" while women with higher levels of education (and by inference, a greater awareness of race and class struggle) support obama because their understanding of feminist issues transcends "woman=good; man=bad"
don't you think it's also partly generational, though? my mom got her phd during the era of second-wave feminism, so while she's middle/upper-middle class, she probably identifies more with Hillary and second-wave feminism (though thankfully she's no gender essentialist). whereas i think the younger generation of feminists are being influenced by third-wave feminism(s), queer theory, sex-positive thinking, etc.
I'm a feminist. I think it's kind of important when people of the group to which I belong are behaving badly that I say that I belong to that group, because otherwise they really look like pure idiots.
I'm swayed to like Obama because I like his writing style so much more, and I tend to feel like good writers are good at everything, though of course I know that's not so. Still, it's my weakness. I don't vote in primaries anyway; I'm just stating my preference to be clear.
I wouldn't have cared who NARAL picked; I mean it seems to me both Clinton and Obama would have been fine choices for them to endorse as far as REFLECTING their specific platform is concerned. As far as the hopes of ADVANCING that platform, as Obama has a better shot at the presidency, he seems like the guy NARAL would put their money and power behind.
I guess it hurts more when your horse comes in second than when it comes in fourth or whatever. Doesn't mean the people betting on the winning horse are bad, obviously.
i gave up on clinton
and the feminists - well shit.
i think i would rather work on fighting prop 98 than arguing on that messed up comment board.
I haven't touched that board--I looked, sighed, and decided that was the last straw for me. I don't have time to fight with white women about feminism. As my icon says, I've got better things to do.
I think that it's important to remember when reading messages boards and comments, that not only are there trolls that post several times under different names, but that people get PAID to go to sites and post comments that will pit communities against each other, or comments that are extremely one sided.
I will admit though, the only thing that makes me nervous about Obama is his present votes on abortion issues in the Illinois state senate--I lived in Chicago at the time.
While I try not to vote on one issue, I do believe that if women lose the right the choose it is the one thing that can keep people stuck in poverty as well as hold women back from all the goals that they dream of. I do get pretty picky abut candidates with their voting records and statements made when it comes to the issue.
Though I know that on some level it's good that this primary is dragging on--all the new states they are going to and passing out their messages, all the new people getting involved--I wish it was just over.
Yet and still, many of the hostile comments to NARAL sound like what has been said by Gloria Steinem, Roseanne Barr, Erica Jong, and NY NOW.