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The richest girl in town.

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Someone get me a torch. [Wednesday, Sep. 15th, 2010|04:21 pm]
The richest girl in town.
Writer Elizabeth Moon is either a disingenuous cynic working purposely to fan the flames of anti-Islamic sentiment or a motherfucking idiot.

Update: Someone's deleted all comments because "whatever's been said has been said, and answered, and resaid, and reanswered."

I've said it before and I'll say it again: deleting comments is a punk-ass move.

[User Picture]From: pantryslut
2010-09-15 11:31 pm (UTC)
I'm voting "idiot." On the basis of the rest of her blather about "citizenship," not to mention generational cohorts, U.S. history, and assimilationism.
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[User Picture]From: fightingwords
2010-09-16 12:05 am (UTC)
I swear to a God I barely believe in that I am hitting the boiling point. I thought it was during the presidential campaign, but no, it's actually gotten worse.

It's gotten to the point now where I don't want to explain anything anymore; that requires giving people the benefit of the doubt, and it seems a lot of people aren't worthy of that anymore. Instead, I want to punch people in the mouth. They may not understand all that I've been trying to explain, but I bet they won't say stupid shit again.
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From: outlawpoet
2010-09-15 11:40 pm (UTC)
Just seems ill-informed, and just trying to establish a "wisely superior" path between two opinions she sees as equally wrong-headed.

The comments are full of Peggy Noonan style soft-pedaling, where anybody criticising is derailed into a tone argument and accused of misinterpreting.

Interesting to see shetterly on the other side of this. He calls out the blanket "Islam" references as bigotry.
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[User Picture]From: fightingwords
2010-09-15 11:52 pm (UTC)
I don't think she's just ill-informed; I think she's a fucking bigot. elizaeffect breaks down Moon's argument quite nicely here:

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[User Picture]From: tristan_crane
2010-09-15 11:52 pm (UTC)


I know--I do not dispute--that many Muslims had nothing to do with the attacks, did not approve of them, would have stopped them if they could."

Really? Many? Not all though, because we all know that Muslim people are all happy to watch American's die, even ones who live in America, because they haven't bothered to integrate themselves.

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[User Picture]From: maevele
2010-09-16 02:07 am (UTC)

Re: Yikes.

yeah, she has some comment as well about how many muslims were happy about the towers. in fact "and not only did the Islamic world in general show indecent glee about the attack"

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[User Picture]From: shipbuilding
2010-09-15 11:58 pm (UTC)
She sure does use a lot of words to say nothing, now, doesn't she.

I am feeling a bit hot-headed, as an AM radio sports station broadcast a...PSA? from a horribly ignorant racist business owner, talking about how illegal immigrants are destroying our culture. A few years ago, he posted signs at his establishment that orders should be placed only in English.

Kind of want everyone to fall into a bowl of pudding that they can never crawl out of. No torture, just want them...incapacitated and away from me.
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[User Picture]From: fightingwords
2010-09-16 12:03 am (UTC)
You're a much nicer person than I am.
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From: elusis
2010-09-16 01:14 am (UTC)
Apparently I should just adopt a blanket policy of never reading SF/F written by women with the name "Elizabeth [nature word]."

What a fucking self-important piece of twaddle. And I'm really disturbed that the first comment, and a vaguely supportive one, is from someone I knew years ago on a Usenet group and have always respected.
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[User Picture]From: marialuminous
2010-09-16 02:11 am (UTC)
the first comment, and a vaguely supportive one, is from someone I knew years ago on a Usenet group and have always respected.

Yeah, he and I have a few mutual friends and he often seemed to leave thoughtful comments, but this time I read his comment hoping to find the moment when he said, "Okay, I agree with you, BUT...."

And for the first few paragraphs, I, too, was in agreement of Elizabeth Moon's opinions about good citizens having a civic duty towards their community, but then she started spouting out some unrelated utter bullshit. The part I couldn't wrap my mind around was where on earth does she get the idea that all people of Islamic faith are recent immigrants who haven't integrated into the greater American community?

Since we supposedly have a separation of Church and State, becoming an American citizen is not supposed to mean becoming Christian, much less eradicating or whitewashing one's previous religious beliefs -- a devout Muslim might be no less of an upstanding American citizen than an devout Christian would be -- so how did she justify her jump in logic from discussing citizenship to bashing Muslims and assuming that they are all recent immigrants? Nearly all the Islamic people I know are from families who have been citizens of this country for multiple generations: they are as American as I am.

And as person of Catholic decent, I often cringe at analogies that take a shot at the Catholic Church's scandals, but yes, I'd pull that analogy out in this case. Does she advocate that, as a good citizen, I ought to put away my crucifix, and that the priests and deacons in my family put away their collars? Out of respect for the children who were abused, should we not allow any Catholic Churches to be built near schools or near residential areas? Should I be apologetic that the faith which has shaped who I am is also associated with some really destructive wackos? If not, why ask that of Islamic people?
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[User Picture]From: fengi
2010-09-16 02:07 am (UTC)
Invoking "citizen" in hushed tones always seems to portent something bad, but I was fooled by a second as she invoked some wisps of Tom Joad, indicating mere well-meaning ignorance - then she went right to the pure bigotry.

In short, a nasty piece of work.

In long, I much prefer blunt ignorant hatred of those who merely declare Islam evil (as a shield for their broader racism) to someone who equates a community center with the perfidy of Ken Lay; which is a twisty sort of hater, a snake who will offer a sugary smile and find words of brotherhood while handing you watery whiskey and nodding at the cocksucker who is waiting to hang you. All the while telling herself she is the very finest of people.

Edited at 2010-09-16 02:09 am (UTC)
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[User Picture]From: epilady
2010-09-16 02:34 am (UTC)
I VOTE "STEEVIL"" al la Jon Stewart.

I mean come on.
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[User Picture]From: pretzelcoatl
2010-09-16 02:38 am (UTC)
Writer Elizabeth Moon is either a disingenuous cynic working purposely to fan the flames of anti-Islamic sentiment or a motherfucking idiot.

I say a little from Column A, a little from Column B.
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[User Picture]From: whiskeypants
2010-09-16 02:42 am (UTC)
She even gets the politics behind the Crusades wrong, the stupid cow.

I know that's not the main issue here, but the fact that she's using centuries-old politics to justify her ridiculously awful arguments and getting it wrong drives me up the fucking wall.
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From: elusis
2010-09-17 07:38 am (UTC)
I just flew over her to say "OMGWTFBBQ DELETION" because... jesus fuck.
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[User Picture]From: bravest_unsaid
2010-09-21 12:47 am (UTC)
I love how it's all like listen, I'm as enlightened as the next Democrat, but let's get real, bigotry is totes the shit, right?

I don't even. Arrrrrgh.
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